chewy and soft pizza dough..

[khj]

This is my first time to post a topic here. I'm changing pizza recipe of a restaurant I work for soon, so I need your help!! Let me tell you about ingredient I use at first. They are
1kg of strong flour
20g of sugar
20g of salt
16g of instant dried yeast
120ml of olive oil
540+..of water

I want chewy and soft crust, so I'm adding some milk and cornmeal or soy flour for the dough. I think it needs more water, too. Are they going to work well?? Is using fresh yeast better than instant dried yeast? I've got many questions, but I'm not sure of my topic is suitable for this forum. If there will be no warning from the admin I'll ask you guys more.

Thanks~~

[Dan Lepard]

Hi,
Change the flour, that's the key to getting the crust you want. Use a Italian 00 flour, reduce the yeast to 10g, the oil to 75ml and slightly increase the water to make a soft dough, and leave the dough longer.
For me, pizza made with strong white flour is always slightly tough and heavy.
Dan

[khj]

Thank you, Dan. I'm so happy with your reply.

Umm..I'm making it with a Italian 00 flour on Monday. Are mike and soy flour or cornmeal unnecessary? Is it enough to get chewy and soft one without them?

I divide the dough as I finish kneading it, then leave it to rise for about 2hours, but some recipe show me that they leave the dough without divison. When the dough has almost doubled in size, they divide it and leave it to rise again as we do for making bread. Is that way better?

Can anyone help me??

khj

[Dan Lepard]

There are slightly different ways to make a pizza according to where in Italy or the USA (there are specific American styles, too) you are, but these are the general tips to getting a good then crust pizza Napoli:

1. Use a 00 flour, preferably one suited to pizza making. The 00 flour will give a crunch to the edges while still staying slightly chewy on the edge. The pizzas I’ve had in Italy then to have a aerated light but bulbous outer crust - almost like a handle - and then a thin stretched base.

2. Other than the flour, the dough should contain yeast (could be a sourdough), salt, water, and something to help the dough colour quickly: malt (typical in Italy), sugar (typical elsewhere), and often a little oil or what the Italians call “struttto” or hard fat (like rendered pork fat). The strutto isn’t necessary. You shouldn’t need soya or milk.

3. You will need extra flour to shape the dough, as the dough should be soft enough so it stretches with its own weight - if made by hand without rolling - when draped over your knuckles. If you’re using a rolling machine you will have to make the dough firmer but this will affect the texture.

4. To help make the dough chewy, the general principal is to use a little yeast and leave the dough longer. Two hours is probably too little. Reduce the yeast and leave it for four hours without dividing if you can. Then divide the dough into 150g - 200g pieces, shape these into balls and sit them on a floured tray somewhere cool (not fridge cold) covered with a cloth.

Here are some pictures of my pizza from a week ago:

[khj]

Thank you so~~~much for your detailed reply, Dan!!!
It's really helpful and the picture of your pizza looks great, especially the edge.

I hope that my challenge will be done successfully.

khj

[MaxArtist]

this is interesting. i never heard of malt being used in pizza dough but will for sure give it a go, especially since i now have a 500g bag of dark spraymalt! (bought for trying your ottolenghi crusty italian bread)
i once used 00 flour in place of my regular shipton mill strong white, and could not detect any big, noticeable difference...
btw dan, what moz are you using there?

i use all white leaven (no yeast), leave balls in fridge for a day or two, bring to room temp 2 hours before bake, heat up stone for 2 hours. bake at 250 for 7 mins.

good luck khj with your pizzas and please let us know how you get on. pics would be great!

[Dan Lepard]

Hi Max,
It may be that using 00 once in a pizza dough might not be enough to build a library of characteristics in your memory, so you can clearly say what was made with what.

I don't think, when I started baking full-on back in '92, that I could have really understood and identified the difference so I had to heavily rely on the great chefs and bakers I learned from to advise me. Now, I know you're much more advanced than I was when I started, and I'm sure you're being accurate to your memory when you say you couldn't tell the difference. But there is one, and I might have become too sensitive to the differences between flours and just expect everyone else to notice it.

The pizza was for David and I, so I used a very good organic mozzarella di buffala.

Yes, malt is typically used in Italian bakeries in breads, pizza dough and other simple flour baking. But it is rarely listed in the ingredients in English books on Italian baking, as it’s difficult for the home baker to get hold of.

Dan

[khj]

Hi!!! It's been a long time to visit here again.

Since Dan's given some tips I've got better dough than before(thanks!!^^), but there's a problem.
I think using more water made the dough chewy and moist, but using less oil made colour of edge was unclear, I mean it didn't look good. It took long time to get beautiful brown colour.

I tried to use Italian oo flour, but there's no big difference, so I'm using Korean strong flour. (and I had a happening with Italian one..)

What can I do to get beautiful colour?? Isn't the oil a cause of it???

I'll let you and Max know the final result of my pizza asap. I hope....

[Dan Lepard]

What can I do to get beautiful colour?? Isn't the oil a cause of it???

Not usually, in Italian pizzarias. Normally it is a combination of the the heat of the oven, malt in the dough - so increase the sugar if you can't get malt - and some hard fat like lard (what the Italian's call 'strutto')